Curse

Sallythekiller · Jun 30, 2005, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Have you played Age of Empires recently? Because it seems like you're dragging up some of their old ideas and applying them to something almost completely, but not quite, unlike Guild Wars.

I won't break them all down and comment because there are many many more people who seem to have the right idea and have told you. Props to Mister Glue, especially.

If these ideas were valid and important to the way Anet wanted the game played, I'm sure they would have put them in already. As is, I like the game where it is, its fun. If you want a little challenge, clearly you haven't found the right pvp situation. And unless your guild is that first ranking korean team, I think you have a ways to go before you find that the game is no longer challenging.

Some good ideas at first glance, just consider some of our points.

wheel · Jun 30, 2005, 09:13 AM // 09:13

the OP has no idea what he's talking about. end of story. the suggestions he make would end up INCREASING luck by a huge factor, not decreasing it.

gabby2600 · Jun 30, 2005, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

Disagree with all of them. This isn't an FPS where backstabbing and surprise attacks will win you your match.

It's also not a game where player skill is better than stuff unlocked, but GW claims that on the box.

Yes GW is not an FPS, but as it stands their are no tactics or strategies, they realy on player skill alone.

wheel · Jun 30, 2005, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabby2600

It's also not a game where player skill is better than stuff unlocked, but GW claims that on the box.

Yes GW is not an FPS, but as it stands their are no tactics or strategies, they realy on player skill alone.

have you won HoH? no. do you think you lost in tombs because of luck? no. you lost because their strategies, tactics AND skills beat you. end of story.

gabby2600 · Jun 30, 2005, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

the OP has no idea what he's talking about. end of story. the suggestions he make would end up INCREASING luck by a huge factor, not decreasing it.

Luck is a very relivant factor in any battle, have a good team increases your odds and gives you a better chance.

Consider Proffesional Sports for a moment, many sports and all competition realy on massive elemetns of luck. All your doing when trainging is effecting that luck. The only reason a downhill skier does not fall off more than the new skier, is not becasue they have the better equipment no itbecause they ahve learned to recognise the situations presented to them and adapt quickly.

In any competition if you know 100% one tool you use will give you a massive advantage, then that competition is not fair to those people without that tool.

So what I'm saying bring more luck in to the game make the team think on their feet, make it so the flavour of the Month build becomes pointless. Make it so a good dynamic team can win over someone who spend 18 hours a day unlocking everything. As they said GW is for the casual player, increasing luck in the game will mean the casual player stand just as much chance as the dedicated one. Again A.net say this is a game for the Casual Player, yet I have to see that aspect of the game in action.

So think if the PvPers can moan about the game not being grindless for them, I have jsut as much right to make the point that it's urrently not for the casual player and does not realy on player skill over unlocks.

It's the same argument as the PvPers just over differant points, So if you think this is irrelivant then you must also say the PvPer arguments are irrelivant. As well all want to have what it says on the box.

gabby2600 · Jun 30, 2005, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

have you won HoH? no. do you think you lost in tombs because of luck? no. you lost because their strategies, tactics AND skills beat you. end of story.

Won HoH = Yes
Was it Due to luck = Yes
Their tactics beat me = Nop (I know this because today in HoH we took down a guild team with only 7 people left in our team and I was the leader, I attribute this to a massive amount of luck and quick thinking on my part because my team was so disorganised.)
They had more skills unlocked and better equipment = Yes.(in 99.9% of losses)

Ashleigh McMahon · Jun 30, 2005, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Gabby, Deleated your multi posts, DO NOT multi post.

Regards, Ashleigh.

gabby2600 · Jun 30, 2005, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroLion

Don't like Adrenaline on that W/Mo? Hex him with Soothing images. Right then and there his effectiveness goes down. Hell, add a blind to that and we'll see how fast he gains that adrenaline. Don't like his enchantments? Remove them. There is nothing imbalanced about W/Mo. Nothing.

I think I have probably already answered this to some degree and come to this condclusion that it's not imbalance in that combination but more of an imbalance of qute a few people who play them (in my experience). However as the perminant enchantments enchance the Monks rather crappy and energy dependent unique attributes the perminant enchantments should have time limits when Monk is the secondary profession.

I mean where would the warrior be if armour penitration was reduced with energy. How would the ele feel if their max energy level dropped with their health. Would a Ranger be happy if skills cost more the less enegy they have.

So why is Divine Favour only useful when casting and while the Monk has energy. As soon as that energy runs out Divine favour becomes utterly usless. So the monks need a better unique advantage. which I see as the perminant enchantments. As far as I'm aware no other proffession has enchantments like this. So why can't these be unique to the Monk, because at the moment it degrades form the monk class and makes it kinda useless. As the only advantge you get runs out, so it's not a significant enough advantage for people to play them. I think this i why their are so few Primary Monks in the game and a lot more W/Mo's.

Mayar third Keeper · Jun 30, 2005, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Consider Proffesional Sports for a moment, many sports and all competition realy on massive elemetns of luck. All your doing when trainging is effecting that luck. The only reason a downhill skier does not fall off more than the new skier, is not becasue they have the better equipment no itbecause they ahve learned to recognise the situations presented to them and adapt quickly.

Taking ur example: U would like to downhill the hill blind?

Perishiko ReLLiK · Jun 30, 2005, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabby2600

1) Please remove the Mini-Map for all PvP and GvG events. Knowing where the opposition is and their formation, means you cannot properly formulate ambushes and tactics based purely on player skill. If you have to rely on visual confirmation then the skilled scout or the clever tactician will be able to use their natural skills.

2) Remove the primary and secondary profession markers for all characters in PvP and GvG. This seriously affects the tactic of surprise, I cannot pretend to be one thing then pull a new box of tricks out.

3) Removed the showing of what skills are being used by the character you clicking on, and what skills are being used against you. Again this seriously undermines the element of surprise, and removes elements of fear and confusion which are vital in winning battles against overwhelming odds.

4) Warrior Monks should not be allowed to use the persistent enchantments of the Monk. These persistent enchantments which are vital to the monk because of low Armour Level should not be allowed on any profession that is not Monk Primary. Evidence is clear that the Warrior Monk is a seriously unbalanced combination, which not only upsets PvP but makes a mockery of PvE.

5) Make it so that flanked character cannot block, they can only evade or dodge. How can you possibly block someone both in form of you and behind you at the same time. Being able to do this means the tactic of flanking is useless in the game.

6) Make the height advantage affect more than Just rangers. In proper tactics any combatant on higher ground has the advantage. Without this in Guild Wars then it seriously detracts from the ability of the tam to manoeuvre in to formation and gain a good vantage point.

7) I would like to see the amount of damage a character does be reduced with physical damage. At the end of the day a warrior’s effectiveness relies on their health and physical capacity. Without this in Guild wars we cannot possibly use the tactics of wounding to its full advantage.

These are just a few points that could be addressed in order to make Guild Wars in to the game it claims to be. And that is a game where the player’s skill is more important than time spent playing grinding and unlocking items.

yes I’m starring to get really miffed at the incessant dummy spiting of some PvP players. They got what they wanted a progressive unlock system that works just fine. Now they want infinite refund points as well, I mean WTF, will they ever be happy.

Note 1-- Should be moved to suggestions.

1. That will be completely pointless as soon as the observer mode comes in... in-valid.

2. This one i completely Agree on!! Good suggestion...

3. This can't be removed... that's how all interupt skills are used... in-valid.

4. This is Really funny... i didn't think there even were such "wa/mo newbs" anymore... wa/mo is not un-balanced, that's why they have nearly no mana regen, and well... a very lowered mana pool as well... live and learn.

5. I would like the ability to evade things from behind me (i have a sixth sense for that sort of thing)... but blocking two things at the same time could be hard... so i half way agree with this... but it might be hard to impliment so many checks within a battle may cause more lag for lower end computers.

6. No comment.

7. I don't quite know what you're saying here... i disagree with what i "think" you may be saying... because, well... i'm your parent, and i said so.

On the point of infinite refund points--- Won't ever happen... anet isnt stupid, they just appease to the masses.

Detis Zan · Aug 22, 2005, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Honestly I don't understand you're real point..

You mention sports.. real battles in real life over the world and real tatics in the millitary... What does any of this have to do with a video game that is far from the real world. Magic, swords and dragons? What? If you want to play a tatic game go play something else.

Note on sports- Okay... So in basketball it's luck. Someone who has years of training is increasing the chances of luck to win. Wait what? Luck is in card games.. that's luck.. the chances of living from a death experience is luck.

If you played any TCG that's about luck more than anything, you can have the best cards and still lose because you get a bad draw. But over all if you have good combos equiped (and know how to use them) you can win but it's still based on luck because everything is random in that deck.. not organized.

But in sports.. In teams you ARE organized, you have been trained so you can run farther and push limits to win. Knowing a strategy with people who know how to play and are competent to win that is skill. Also 'talent' is greatly in sports.. not video games.

As for real battles... It's still based on the men who have trained and know how to use a weapon or when to spring an attack etc etc.. Again these video game models weren't trained.. they were made.. the people who play them are people who know how to put skills together which ones that can uphold the enemy. Sure it's random on who you are fighting and luck is involved but it's not the RULE of everything.

Luck doesn't rule sports or real fighting wars. And this whole thing what ANet says on the Box... seriously it's an advertisement saying anyone can play and you do use 'skill' and tactics. As of not simply just running into battle and what not.

You can't hold someone by the neck because they printed something on a damn box. It's like saying you're not awake from drinking an energy drink even though it says it gives you energy and you suggest turning the ingredients of the drink upside down because it doesn't suit how you are. That goes for anything advertised on ANY product it's not a promise it may have it but it's not specific and every desire to you're specific wants.

It's a video game not a simulation of fighitng real battles..

banishd · Aug 22, 2005, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabby2600

1) Please remove the Mini-Map for all PvP and GvG events. Knowing where the opposition is and their formation, means you cannot properly formulate ambushes and tactics based purely on player skill. If you have to rely on visual confirmation then the skilled scout or the clever tactician will be able to use their natural skills.

gg people running around and hiding are annoying already, dont make it easier for them, remove mini map? gg easy ganks ftw.

Quote:

2) Remove the primary and secondary profession markers for all characters in PvP and GvG. This seriously affects the tactic of surprise, I cannot pretend to be one thing then pull a new box of tricks out.

anyone who cant tell what class a certain person is by looking at their armor needs to /quit.

Quote:

3) Removed the showing of what skills are being used by the character you clicking on, and what skills are being used against you. Again this seriously undermines the element of surprise, and removes elements of fear and confusion which are vital in winning battles against overwhelming odds.

uh yeah ok? how are intereuprt mesmers supposed to work?
distract rangers?

Quote:

4) Warrior Monks should not be allowed to use the persistent enchantments of the Monk. These persistent enchantments which are vital to the monk because of low Armour Level should not be allowed on any profession that is not Monk Primary. Evidence is clear that the Warrior Monk is a seriously unbalanced combination, which not only upsets PvP but makes a mockery of PvE.

REND ENCHANTMENTS
besides is Mending really going to save you?

[quote[
5) Make it so that flanked character cannot block, they can only evade or dodge. How can you possibly block someone both in form of you and behind you at the same time. Being able to do this means the tactic of flanking is useless in the game.
[/quote]
please tell me a place with a small enough area where 1 person can block 2 people from both sides.

Quote:

6) Make the height advantage affect more than Just rangers. In proper tactics any combatant on higher ground has the advantage. Without this in Guild Wars then it seriously detracts from the ability of the tam to manoeuvre in to formation and gain a good vantage point.

agreed.

Quote:

7) I would like to see the amount of damage a character does be reduced with physical damage. At the end of the day a warrior’s effectiveness relies on their health and physical capacity. Without this in Guild wars we cannot possibly use the tactics of wounding to its full advantage.

what?

Sorry but this thread has

Miss Bailing · Aug 22, 2005, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabby2600

3) Removed the showing of what skills are being used by the character you clicking on, and what skills are being used against you. Again this seriously undermines the element of surprise, and removes elements of fear and confusion which are vital in winning battles against overwhelming odds.

That'd disable some of the skills from each class that "interrupt" and "disable" enemy target skills.

Rieselle · Aug 22, 2005, 10:39 AM // 10:39

I pretty much disagree with all of the op's points, except for the following:

Terrain should present some more advantages. For example, rather than always being perfectly aimed, projectiles should travel towards any point on your target. That way, if your projectile happens to be hitting their foot, and they're standing behind a hill or wall, it'll be blocked. (partial cover and all that.)

Being above your target, in melee or in ranged, should increase your chances of hitting their head. Hitting their head should be more powerful than hitting their body.

Lastly, positioning needs to be even more important, by a little. There should be a small offensive bonus of some sort (lack of evade/block, or higher crit chance, or whatever) for attacking someone from behind. (Alternatively, for attacking someone who is attacking someone else.)
There should be a small defensive bonus for facing and attacking someone who's attacking you. Maybe both of these things should only apply to melee, I dunno.
Also, there should be a bonus for melee vs. casting/bow attacks, but only if the above changes are made.

This is to improve the role of warriors as defenders just a little. Currently there's not much to discourage a warriors from just charging right past each other to attack casters (except if they charge out of healing range.). With the above changes, it becomes viable for your warriors to turn around and attack those warriors from behind, either killing them or forcing them to turn around and engage your warriors.

We'd see patterns of battle closer to what you'd expect, with a "front line" of warriors and a "back line" of casters/archers. You'd have to judge carefully when to hold the line or when to charge in. An early warrior kill might become just as important as an early caster or healer kill, because it allows your own warriors to outnumber or charge past theirs to attack their back line.

Evisicator · Aug 22, 2005, 11:41 AM // 11:41

I'm sorry gabby2600 I think you might want to just stfu while you still can. I mean if you cant see that you are digging yourself a deeper hole then let me be the one to tell you, you are.

I think Detis Zan says it best about you bringing Real life events into it.

1st of all have you any clue about the military and how it operates. Luck has nothing to do with the outcome of wars, only single instances within that war does luck have anything to do with it. War is fought with Intel i.e. maps upon maps of the terrain and any dug in enemies with-in that terrain. So no don't remove the "compass" (the mini-map is actually closed you have to hit "U" to open it.)

Yes if you remove the showing of skills then just get rid of "ALL" interrupting skills. And this does not make for a more skillfull based game. It turns it into a slugfest and lets spam all these skills game.

And wtf are you talking about W/Mos are too powerful you claim to have won the Hall, it sure in the hell doesnt sound like you have even played any 8v8 period. First of all they dont overwhelm anyone in 8v8 battles because they are so uber. And secondly why in the hell would you suggest nerfing thier dmg output since warriors are already on the bottom of the totem pole as far as target priority. If anything they need to do more dmg not less. Damn lets see Every other proffession has dmg that can bypass armor outright except warriors.

Oh and to everyone that doesnt understand how you could possibly block two attacks at once. it's called a parry. thats right imagine if you will that you actually block someones sword with your sword. what you think ppl just really stand in front of each other and bash the hell outta of one another, and dont ever move or try to parry even if they have a shield. If anything should be looked at its how often arrows hit someone in melee combat. It's alot harder to hit someone with an arrow when a big ass body is blocking your LOS.

Yes there are some flaws in the game as a whole but, the game does rely on player skill and not what you have unlocked. You only get to carry 8 skills with you out of what 150 or so for a 2 proffession caharcter. And then you have to know how to and when to use those skills. People think that spirit spamming isnt skillful thats just a bunch of BS. Why becasue they just arent good enough to figure oout a tactic to defeat that yet. Thats right Spirits are part of ppls tactics. Blocking ppl with them is a tactic. Is it a pain in the ass? yes. Is it not skill and knowledge of how to use this to your advantage skillful.

I need my meds · Aug 22, 2005, 11:51 PM // 23:51

I thought you wanted to improve GW. This is mostly applying only to PVP...

Savio · Aug 23, 2005, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Who dragged this nearly two-month-old post up? It's been done and answered already. Move on.

Meds, an improvement to PvP is an improvement to Guild Wars.

Mithie · Aug 23, 2005, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabby2600

4) Warrior Monks should not be allowed to use the persistent enchantments of the Monk. These persistent enchantments which are vital to the monk because of low Armour Level should not be allowed on any profession that is not Monk Primary. Evidence is clear that the Warrior Monk is a seriously unbalanced combination, which not only upsets PvP but makes a mockery of PvE.

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...ha....ha....

Oh... wait, you're serious.

Honestly, when was the last time you saw a W/Mo run self sustained enchants?

Under NR spam, no less.